Chase The Unknown Podcast
Welcome to the Chase The Unknown Podcast, brought to you by the Boondocks Hunting Podcast family! This show is all about embracing the pure joy, excitement, and rush that comes from not knowing what lies just around the bend. To us, Chase The Unknown means the thrill of stepping into the wild with no guarantees—whether it’s locking eyes with a 200-inch whitetail, crossing paths with a 500-lb black bear, hearing the thunderous gobble of a turkey, or simply witnessing the beauty and unpredictability of nature. It’s about the anticipation, the adventure, and the stories that follow.
But what does Chase The Unknown mean to you? Is it the adrenaline of the hunt, the connection to nature, or the pursuit of something greater than yourself? Join us as we explore those questions, share incredible stories, and celebrate the thrill of the hunt—where the outcome is always unknown but the journey is unforgettable.
Let’s chase it together—one adventure at a time!
Chase The Unknown Podcast
Natural Kilers, Natural Patterns: Redefining Camo For The Whitetail Woods w/ Joe Miles
Joe Miles, founder of Asio Gear, shares his journey from South Carolina whitetail hunter to creator of innovative camo patterns inspired by nature's perfect predators. His lifelong passion for bowhunting mature bucks led to developing gear specifically designed for the challenges of whitetail hunting.
• South Carolina hunting background with August 15th rifle opener and historically unlimited buck harvest
• Midwest hunting experiences revealed drastically different deer sizes and behaviors
• Creation of Asio Raptor pattern inspired by watching great horned owls disappear in the woods
• Development of RapX pattern for ground hunters based on terrestrial predators
• Designing gear specifically for bowhunters with strategic pocket placement and bow-friendly features
• Building premium gear at accessible prices through direct-to-consumer model
• Expanding from seven initial products to nearly 50 SKUs covering all hunting conditions
• African hunting experiences and the role of hunters in wildlife conservation
• Recommended "90% system" for hunters looking to try Asio gear
Check out Asio Gear's whitetail-specific camo and apparel at their website or follow them on Instagram to see how hunters are succeeding with their innovative patterns.
Help support our show and also our sponsors
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Every hunter has a moment when the woods go quiet, the air shifts and time slows down and in that stillness you realize you're not chasing the game, you're chasing something bigger. Welcome to the Chase the Unknown podcast, where we go beyond the saddle, past the trail cameras and deep into the stories that fuel the fire. This show is for the ones who lose sleep over the rut, who hike miles into the public land for just a chance and who live for that silence before the shot. From the backcountry to the backroads. We sit down with hunters and trappers, with the relentless stories, who live for the thrill, embrace the unknown and return with the stories we're telling. This is more than a podcast. This is the start of something real. Let's chase it.
Speaker 1:Today's guest is a straight-up killer in the Whitetail Woods. Founder of Osseo Gear, relentless bowhunter and builder of the Mission Whitetail movement, Joe Miles has always made it his mission to outwork, outthink and outhunt mature bucks on his home turf. Osseo's camo was specifically built for the whitetail woods, For the built-in concealment for tree sand hunters or saddle hunters who know every second counts. No gimmicks, just gear that disappears when it matters most. Joe's. Joe's not chasing trends, he's chasing legacy from brutal all-day sits in the southern heat to outsmarting big bucks in high pressure zones. Joe breaks down the mindset, the tactics and the grit it takes to get it done when he few can. If you're serious about putting mature deer down on the ground, you're in the right place. Let's get into it.
Speaker 2:Joe, welcome to the show man, thank you for having me. I'm uh super pumped to be here with you today.
Speaker 1:I appreciate you working out the time and getting me on here, man, I know, definitely like it's um, I will say like it's, it's a huge pleasure of mine and you know, for for especially whitetail hunters and bow hunters like I gotta say, like I first, like you know, I'm somebody who likes to see stuff first and I actually first saw um. I've heard a lot about it. I know a bunch of guys, um, like ryan pledger and everything like that, like you know they they love wearing osseo and everything like that, and I was like you know, I want it, can't wait to see it, I can't wait to see it. And I went to the um great american outdoor show, as we do every single year, uh, but I stopped by the booth and everything like that and finally got to see everything in person and honestly, like I was, I was telling Ryan, like I was like I'm absolutely blown away, like I've heard a lot, like I've heard a lot of great things.
Speaker 1:You know one of our team guys and everything like that, steve, he moved to some of your guys' early season stuff and everything like that and you know it was just so great to see and I'm really like looking forward to, you know, using it and adding more pieces as we go on here, but, like, this is something that has, I'd say, really taken over in the last three or four years. When you're mentioning camo, you're always mentioning Osseo at this point, so we're all happy to get down and talk to you.
Speaker 2:No man. Thank you so much. Yeah, it's been quite a road from having an idea in the woods in 2018-19 to bringing it into market and then seeing guys be successful wearing it. It's been a really cool journey and and we're we're super, super pumped about where the, where the company and brand is headed. So, yeah, it's been a. It's been a a tough, a tough ship to row here for the last five or six years and we've got a really really good team that is all behind the brand.
Speaker 1:Most of them are bow hunters, so that helps a lot and, yeah, we're excited about the future, man, yeah, no, uh, definitely, and you know it's great, like I love, like you're saying, like you know, when you guys want 2018, 2019, we're not talking about like a camo company now that's been on the market for 15, 20 years and everything like that you know you guys have you came out 2018, 2019 and really hit the ground running, is it? Is it really because you know a big part of it's like this is really catered to the, to the whitetail hunter and everything like that? And just like this is exactly what a lot of bow hunters and gun hunters and everything like that, who mainly hunt in, you know, in the whitetail woods, was able to actually focus on it, cause you see a lot of stuff it's a lot of made for Midwest and you know Alaska and like all these places, but nothing really, you know cater too much to the to the whitetail hunter.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, that was the gap that that I saw in the industry is I started. I got to a point in my life where I could do some Western hunts and some mountain type hunts and I was using the real high-end premium gear that I had never been exposed to before when I grew up. It was cotton and a little bit of fleece, and when it got cold you look like the Michelin man walking out there, your arms were all jacked up and you got 45 layers on and sweatpants and blue jeans and, you know, one layer of camouflage on the outside. And then I went, did some of these mountain hunts and got introduced to that premium stuff and I was like, oh my God, this is the quality of this stuff is crazy.
Speaker 2:So did quite a bit of research on how a lot of that stuff was made and said you know, if I can ever think of a really good camo pattern that makes sense it's not just some man-made piece that looks good to the human eye If I can ever come up with something that really will work in no matter what season you're in and what part of the whitetail range you're in, part of the whitetail range you're in, then I may just launch a camo company that fills that gap between a really good whitetail camouflage pattern that we can get close to deer in and then the high-end premium fabrics and cut and sew and wind block and you know all the insulation properties that we have and like the Primaloft insulation that we use. So that's kind of how everything started and and, yeah, I think it filled a filled a gap and a niche and something that guys wanted, and so I definitely attribute a lot of that to the success that the brand has had.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Now, you know, but before we really dive even further into into Osceola and everything like that, you know, I really want to get into your background of just hunting and everything like so.
Speaker 2:You were born and raised in in South Carolina yeah, I was born and raised in South Carolina, very fortunate, grew up in a hunting family. My dad was a huge hunter and I shot my first deer with him when I was five and my mom hunted, my sister hunted, my brother hunted, you know know, every weekend during hunting season we would be down at our, our club or our lease and so, yeah, the bug hit me really bad when I was 15 or 16, I started bow hunting then and and just continued doing that. But, yeah, very, very fortunate to have a dad. I mean, at one time he had the 11th biggest state kill, a buck killed in the state of South Carolina, and I actually just hung up with him before this, before we got on this podcast. He's 80 years old and he was going to scout a 70 acre piece that he just found. So he, he's still out there doing it, man.
Speaker 1:I love that. That. That's absolutely incredible. And you know that that's the one thing I think part of like you know, as you know, for to watch your father now and you know, still doing it, you know in in the 80s and everything like that and like like we're just talking about it's hot as hell out, like he's going out still, and you know it's hot, it's humid and you know you guys are more south than us, so I can only imagine what it's like. But that's that's just pure, you know, dedication. That's really really when you love it, like you still have got to have that itch. Yeah, you know what I mean at 80 and everything like to still go out, so that that's something nice that you've got to see and and everything. That's like all right, yeah, that's, I want to be able to chase deer, like you know, like my dad, you know when I'm 80 and everything like that.
Speaker 1:That's the goal for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no doubt, yeah. So yeah, man, I you know south carolina home still on hunt here. A lot got already. Got a couple cameras out. Need to get some more out here after the fourth. But uh, love, love hunting them all over man, alberta, mexico, texas, in the midwest just love chasing deer.
Speaker 1:Yeah now and, yeah, who does't? That's a. That's why we're all, we're all obsessed at everything like that, you know. But you know, south carolina, it's so different. You know I've talked to some guys from from north carolina. You know we've started to move a little more to delaware, maryland area, virginia, but you know, growing up, you know what, what was it like? Hunting? You know, in south carolina is for for us, it's it's just so different, just the south. You know, in South Carolina is for us, it's it's just so different, just the South. You know, I'm so used to the North or or talking to guys in the Midwest and everything like that. But you know, for you, growing up and obviously being in a hunting family where everyone did it, you know what. What was your. You know, what did you see in South Carolina that really sticks out to you compared to the rest of the state?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a unique place. I mean we didn't have a limit on bucks up until and I'll have my numbers wrong here, but maybe five years ago there was no limit on bucks, so there were several seasons. My dad would kill 15, 16 bucks in a season and I think I killed 12. One year, 12 bucks, and for us it was really a numbers game. One year, 12 bucks, and for us it was really a numbers game. I mean, we got to a point where we weren't shooting year and a half old bucks but three-year-old eight points. 10 points didn't stand a chance and for us it was outside the ears You're looking for an eight-pointer. Better, that was outside the ears and he was going to get whacked.
Speaker 2:And you know, our season rifle season came in august 15th. It goes all the way to january 1st and it's it's rifle, you know, and not a lot of guys bow hunted and we didn't have a limit on bucks. We did have a a real limit on does, and I think that's because we had a weird population back in the 20s. We didn't have a whole lot of deer, and so these laws just didn't update until really, like I said, five years ago, where you could do about anything. I mean guys were running them with hounds. There's still some hound clubs around but now in the low country, in the part of the state where I am, the rifle season still comes in.
Speaker 2:August 15th goes to January 1st. You can shoot five bucks now and I think maybe 10 does. I think I think you can kill 15 deer if you get all your tags in the state. So it's very challenging for somebody that wants to bow hunt because you've got to find a spot where you can get away from. You know rifle hunting and they do have some bow-only areas like on public and there are some spots that different hunt clubs or private properties that you can get on that you can set up as bow hunting only. But very challenging to bow hunt. But anytime there's a challenge, anytime there's pressure, you're going to sharpen your skills and if you really get addicted to it and go all in on it, you'll you'll get better and become a better hunter. So I do attribute some of the success that I have had over the years growing up in a state that had a tremendous amount of pressure.
Speaker 1:Wow, I mean first there's. There's so many things in that. So you guys still for rifle open up. You said August 5th, August 15th, yeah, we're about.
Speaker 2:August 15th, okay, august, 45 days away to the opener of rifle season.
Speaker 1:Yes, I honestly like it's crazy Like I've never. So I don't know, it just could be like that's such like an underappreciated thing. It's kind of wild be like that's such like an underappreciated thing. It's kind of wild to like I'm trying to wrap my head around it. Like, so now we go down to Delaware, so we start September 1st, and I'm still getting used to that that I'm like, oh my God, we start two weeks before you know we would here in New Jersey, but like to start August 15th, like it's, it's gotta be something. So do you usually go out with the, with the rifle? Are you still strictly bow hunting? No, no, no.
Speaker 2:I only bow hunt and uh, you know it's, it's August 15th, big time velvet bachelor herds, it can be. It can be a real deadly time to hunt them. And if you've got some feeding patterns down and know where they're eating beans, or you know briars or or we start getting some muscadines, which are some wild grapes that time of year, if you can find those spots that they're hitting, they're real patternable and they'll come in most afternoons if they don't get boogered up. So it can be a deadly time. But it's also I mean the mosquitoes, the deer flies or yellow flies, the heat. I mean it is absolutely miserable that time of year. But you know when you're you're addicted to something you'll do whatever it takes, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I mean the the head's turning like right now, like I'm, I'm thinking about like eventually in the future, like I was, like, yeah, I might want to go down to to South Carolina and you know, get an early, uh, rifle hunt and you know I'm a big bow hunter and I'm mostly bow hunt but like, I think, to be able to get a shot at, you know, hunting so early and I my big dream is to always to be able to to honor my birthday. Now, unfortunately, I am in august 5th, so no hunting season really here for for us, but that would be as close of like, all right, like that could work out. Where that would be as close of like, all right, that could work out. Where that's close enough to my birthday. That might be the closest I get a chance to ever going out and hunting close to my birthday.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think there's one in Florida that comes in around July 15th. I think that's the earliest opener in the country, and then I think South Carolina is second with that august 15th. So there there is one, but I don't know, I have no idea, uh, what type deer or where in florida it is that they open. It might be a seminole deer or something like that. I'm not 100 sure, but I know there is one that is earlier than us. But we're right there, I think we're the second.
Speaker 1:Now I also do know and like I love talking to people you know that are that are more from the South, cause it's like a whole different world when it comes to hunting and everything like that for especially deer movement. You know, do you guys have that longer rut or is it still like you that normal first two weeks of November or something like? Do you get it like kind of like I know I've heard Alabama, florida, like those places really down South get that longer later, right? Do you see any of that in South Carolina during your time?
Speaker 2:We do. We've got a really skewed for a lot of the state. We've got a really skewed buck-dough ratio. We get a lot of does to bucks. So you don't have a super aggressive rut because there's not giant competition for does. I mean you have some rutting action. You'll see chasing and that sort of stuff, but it is very prolonged. You'll have some does that start getting bred in October and then man, I've seen, I've seen chasing and breeding all the way into the end of December, january, even does that didn't get bred early, maybe came in the second time and got bred, you know, very late.
Speaker 2:So you get a really weird fawn drop, like like we'll have fawns that are completely out of spots by the opener August 15th and then you'll have some fawns that are just, you know, microscopic, just been born, you know that are fully spotted and still on wobbly legs. So yeah, our rut is long and it's not like a Midwest rut and I think one of the reasons for that is not only is the buck dough ratio messed up, but you know you start talking about Alberta. If those fawns aren't born, you know, right there in April, in the spring, they'll freeze to death in the in the winter because they're just not big enough. So they, they have to be born, so they have to rut. You know that November very, very predictable, when that rut's going to be, whereas ours is prolonged and and just seems to go and go and go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that completely makes sense too. You know that's one of those things where that's kind of like evolution. You know what I mean and you know animals they do everything to survive and they want to give evolution. You know what I mean and you know animals, they do everything to survive and they want to give, you know, their offspring the best chances of survive. So like, if you look anywhere in the north, you know, from maine to canada or anything like that, yeah, anything born too late, the likelihood of it making is basically zero. You know, so.
Speaker 1:But you know, the further south you go, I mean, and and you guys you know, have been getting hit with some of that cold, colder weather, you know, and I've seen some snow.
Speaker 1:Like you know, I was talking to someone on I was on their show down in Florida. He's like it's crazy, like he's like explain to me like what it's like to hunt in the snow. He was like that's like I don't, we don't know what it's like. You know, we had one snowstorm and like the whole state shuts down when, when it snows and everything like that. And for us here it's like that's the day that I want to be out in the woods like no matter what's going on, like nothing's really shutting down, like I drive in blizzards and everything like that. But you know that that's that crazy like balance of. Like you know you start to see a little bit more of that cold, freezing weather and snow, maybe once or twice, but I don't think it will completely last. But do you guys see a big difference in movement on days like that, when it really drops down?
Speaker 2:No, man, normally when it does something crazy like that, it kind of shuts down movement for a day or two and then, boy, when it starts to shift back, that's when they really explode. You know, that's really when they get get going. You know, we don't get a ton of snow, and it does. It hasn't really gotten as cold here the last four or five years as it. You know, as I remember, and and again, that might be just me, I don't, I don't have any scientific data to back that up. It might just be me and and, um, you know, remembering it being colder when I was younger, but, um, no, we, we, if we get two snows a year, that that would be kind of abnormal.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, we'll get some. You know, still, we, we get some 20 degree weather and and, yeah, they, uh, they, they, that that's, you know, always one that's flagged on the, on the calendar. When I see a front like that, I'm going to be out there. But when we get something really extreme, like if it's going to be an ice storm or it's going to get down in the teens or single digits, man, man, it seemed in my experience, it shuts down movement completely, for that, you know, bit of time where it's super extreme and then when it starts to change back, you know, then then they really explode.
Speaker 1:Which you know now, listening to you, said that that would kind of make sense to me, because these deer they're not used to it, at the end of the day, and it's not something that's going to last. And I think, you know, especially the more mature deer that you get, they kind of know, like this isn't something that's going to stay, versus, you know, the more north you go, once you start getting that very cold, snowy weather like it can last now for months, very cold, snowy weather like it can last now for months. So, yes, the deer have no choice but to get up on their feet and go to go find food, because if they don't, they are going to die vice. Versus, you know, even if it's, it's a one-day thing or a two-day thing, you know, I mean, at the end of the day it's not going to last long and they're going to be able to get right back on their feet and everything like that within two, two to three days and be able to find food and and everything like that, pretty, pretty easily.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it. I think it kind of shocks them. You know they're like what is going on? Man, it's 10 degrees out, we're not used to this. So they just kind of locked down and and then three-day ice storm and all the browse is iced over. After that first day, second day, third day, you see them up and going. They got to it, they don't have a choice. But yeah, it's very unusual for us to have six inches of snow that sticks around for a week.
Speaker 1:That's just super, super abnormal yeah, no, I, I would be. You know I. I think a lot of people would be worried if that happened. You know, in the south and everything like that, where you know you, you get all this snow where it lasts a long time and everything like that.
Speaker 1:Uh, you know, for for us and you know I, I know you, you've gone out to the west and everything like that.
Speaker 1:So, like, like, going out to places like that, it's just like you thrive for the cold weather, the, you know the snow and everything like that. You know those are the, the days that you know, especially the. The minute it starts happening, it's like all right, I want to be in the woods, like deer are going to be up on their feet and looking for food and and chasing and and things like that. So you know, it's always so nice to you know, see the differences and and everything like that.
Speaker 1:Um, you know, so you guys have such, a, you know, high buck number and high deer number and density and everything like that, you know, but still with with a lot of pressure, especially with having a rifle season that long, you know, for you, like, you know, on the private properties and everything, what, what's really the, the deer and the bucks genetics, kind of kind of looking like down down in the South versus maybe, like you know, people that you talk to, or even if you get to go on on public land at all. You know what? What do you see the differences there?
Speaker 2:Well, genetic wise, um, you know, 120 inches makes our inches, makes our book in the state of South Carolina. So if you shoot 120 inch deer you make the book. And you know, I think we have four or five net typical bucks that have made the national 170 inch book. You know, somebody will call me out on that and say it's eight or three, but it's, it's not, it's less than 10. I know that net typicals that have made, you know, the national book. So we, we don't have great genetics. Um, you know, we, we, uh, again, we have a lot of deer and it's tough for us to get deer with any age on them because of that rifle season, right can bait, you know you can bait year-round there's not a, not a seasonal baiting.
Speaker 2:You can feed deer, you know, right now, all the way to this time next year. So any deer that's got that trait of of walking around in daylight, of not being nocturnal, he's normally killed, you know, as a two and a half or a three and a half year old. So any deer that makes it past that's going to have a super, super nocturnal gene or nocturnal habit. And so you know, there are some bucks that make it and and they're they are really really tough to kill because the only time they move is is during the rut, or the only time they move in daylight is during the rut. And then we back up to what we were talking about earlier, is is those bucks don't have to be super aggressive.
Speaker 1:Because there's so many does, so it becomes a very challenging place to hunt, for sure yeah, I mean I, I think you know that for for a challenge wise, I I sound like that sounds like like a pretty great state, and also not only that like I think like if I could do things differently and I wasn't born in in new jersey and I'm not talking about the midwest, because everyone wants to be in the midwest like that sounds like a state like when you're getting into hunting, that'd be such a fun state to be in because you get to hunt for a long time, you get to hunt early, but you get a lot of that, like I I totally believe in.
Speaker 1:When you're getting into hunting, you have a killing phase like you are, you're, you're, you're learning a lot and how the best way you do it is you, you're, you're not being picky and you start shooting stuff and you find the fun and enjoy and you you make mistakes and everything like that. But you know you get to go out and you get to shoot. You know so many deer and everything like that which is really going to help you at, at the end, make you a better hunter, in my belief. So when you start chasing really mature deer and bigger deer and everything like that, it's like all right, like I, we've been through this and everything like that and you work yourself up, but like I, we can shoot a lot. I mean, we, we're a seven, I think, either moving to a seven buck state or we are some seven buck state now and we have a limited dose, but we don't have that right. We're bow hunting all from from september to february, with gun season starting in in november and, sprinkled here and there, we're bow hunting state.
Speaker 1:Uh you know, but it's. It's a lot different, like you said, when you're a rifle hunting state and you're starting so early and bowhunting is not much of a a thing. It definitely has a different challenge. But would be very like, yeah, I could see how you had fun, you guys had fun growing up and everything like that. And you know you guys have killed a lot of deer and and and stuff like that. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know it's. It's funny, we, we? I figured it out the other day. There's like a 4,500 acre track that has 40 guys that hunt it, and there's a 2,000 acre track that borders that, that has, you know, 15 people that hunt it. There's a 1,200 acre track that has 15 people that hunt it. There's a 1,200-acre track that has 12 people. Then there's a 5,000-acre track, so it's about 8,000 acres. Well, let's see, 4 and 5 is 9, 10, 11, 12. Let's just call it 12,000 acres and there's about 110 people that hunt that area. And when there's a South Carolina Gamecock away football weekend in October, it sounds like an absolute war zone down there in that swamp because it's really close to Columbia where the football team's located. So yeah, when there's an away football game, buddy, you better wear your Kevlar vest and get ready for war, because you're diving into where the bullets are going to be flying.
Speaker 1:That's so cool. Are you a big college football guy? I know college football is huge down there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah we are. I just had lunch with my team just a little while ago. We were talking about Clemson and who else was going to be good and whether Clemson was going to beat Carolina and what other team was going to be good. But yeah, we're big football people and my wife and son love to go to the Carolina games. It freaks me out a little bit, those big crowds. I don't like to get in those baseball games. I actually played baseball at the University of South Carolina so I've got, you know, some ties there. But my wife and I really enjoy going to the baseball games as well. So yeah, we're. We're a sports family for sure.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love that. Yeah, and one of my buddies, he went down there and he was like I love it here. He's like the football, he goes everything I go. It's beautiful, it's a sport and you know it is such a sports driven, you know area and, just like you know, for the South it's a lot of football, a lot of baseball and those are like diehard, it's like. It's like they're all professional teams, especially now with the NIL deal.
Speaker 2:Oh, my God Like that yes.
Speaker 1:Crazy, but it's, you know it's, it's the way of life the more south you go. The college football especially is just it's a way of life and it's like having your own NFL team. It might be even bigger in some of these colleges, these well-known colleges in the SEC and everything like that, or the Big Ten like Michigan and places like that, where it's like. Yeah, this is life and death. This is what we bleed. Is college football. It is.
Speaker 2:It bleed is college football it is. It's kind of unbelievable. And you know I'm certainly not over the top and during the weekend in October and November I'm probably going to be somewhere hunting. But I'll definitely check the scores and if it's after dark I'll watch a game for sure. But yeah, you're not normally going to catch me in November on a Saturday afternoon being sitting on the couch. I'll be out there hunting somewhere, for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, and that's the one thing with sports.
Speaker 1:And I grew up a hockey player and playing hockey at a really high level and that was my always biggest problem Once I retired from hockey and I got the full dive into hunting.
Speaker 1:But before I didn't have the chance, because everything's going on at the same time. You know what I mean. And especially when you're an athlete at that, like you're like all right, like it has to be one or the other. You know, if I was playing in the NHL or NFL or something like that, like I had millions and millions of dollars, like yeah, that that would be, no, no problem, all I gotta do is play sports and then I could just hunt whenever, whenever I want, when I'm not playing. But you know, when you're growing up and everything like that, it gets hard to know if you're a hunter and you want to be a diet, like one of those diet. Sports definitely does take a back seat and it's rough. I'm a a big fantasy football guy and the NFL and hockey and everything like that, but it takes a complete backseat. I will dabble on red zone on my phone while I'm up in a saddle.
Speaker 1:Might be freaking out a little bit because my fantasy team isn't doing well and I'm getting pissed off because money's on the line, but it's a fun time that early part of the season. You got hunting, you got football, you got hockey's kicking off at least for me and everything like that. You got the ending of baseball and the MLB and everything like that.
Speaker 2:I think it's one of the best times of the year, for sure. All rocks, no question, I like fall away, but I'm ready for fall to get here, especially with this 100-degree temperature that we've got down here in the south right now.
Speaker 1:It's miserable I'll tell you I was. You know, I told you I was out in the woods, uh, a little earlier and it was a huge tease because I went to go set up a solar panel and everything like that. So I get up and I like to get my stuff up high, but I brought the saddle with me so I could just move and everything and I was. I was my God, like I cannot wait to be back in the saddle, like the wind was blowing and it was cooling me off and it's like you had that vantage point you could see Like I was like man, this is such a tease.
Speaker 1:But we're slowly getting there. We're going to be back in the fall time in our favorite place and you know, I'm just so thrilled and cannot wait for this upcoming season. Yeah for sure. So, south Carolina, hunting down there. Where was your first state that you went to out-of-state hunt? And then what was it like your first time out in the Midwest, whether your first hunt was going out to the Midwest, out-of-state or not, but what was kind of that when now you're in South Carolina and then you're going somewhere completely different and it's a huge change of tempo.
Speaker 2:And, derek, yeah, illinois public land was my first experience out of state and this was when I was in my late 20s was really my first time going out of. Maybe mid to late 20s was my first time going to Illinois. And man, I got out there and it was a earn your buck place that we were hunting. So you had to shoot a doe first and then you could buck hunt and you had to get drawn into this little unit. But it was pretty easy to get drawn and, if I remember right, you would get drawn and you could hunt for the week and then you'd have to resubmit and if you get drawn again, you could hunt the next week. If you didn't, you had to go to a different spot. But so I get in there and first morning you know we'd gone in the afternoon before hung a stand and I got in the stand that morning did not? Daylight rolls around, nothing.
Speaker 2:And then all of a sudden I hear a deer walking and I look and all I can see is legs and immediately I thought, okay, here comes a Boone and Crockett. I mean I've never seen deer legs that big in my life and I'm like, what am I going to do? I mean I haven't killed a doe yet. And you know I've got the devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other, you know going. What are you going to do when this 190 steps out? Are you really going to let him walk? Are you going to? And I'm like, yeah, I mean, I'm in Illinois, I don't want to do anything wrong. And long story short, it was about a 160-pound doe that stepped out and I'm like, okay, well, it's already shed right, because in South Carolina you get a 180-pound buck. That's a monster.
Speaker 2:This thing was huge. And so I'm looking, I'm going no, it's a buck with no horns. I'm trying to figure all this out. And then the fawn with it, you know, was probably 80 to 100 pounds, maybe not that big, but I was like, oh my God, that's just a doe. And so, anyway, she walked in and I ended up not shooting her because she had that fawn with her, but there was another doe behind that one. I ended up shooting that one and so I got my doe out of the way.
Speaker 2:But I just remember thinking I've never seen deer this big in my life and this is pretty flipping awesome. So I ended up making friends with a guy that owns some private and ended up getting to hunt on a couple of his spots and killed my first Pope and young buck with a bow that netted, I think in the low one thirties. And man I was, I was hooked. I said I got to figure out how to do this every year and that was my first experience to Midwest hunting and man, I ended up hunting in that area, that same area in Illinois, for up until probably five years ago and killed some monsters in there, killed several in the 180s, a couple in the 160s, just a great place, and I ended up losing my lease that I had in there and started, you know, moved on to Kansas and that sort of stuff. But yeah, the question was your experience first time out of state? And that was that was it, man. It was pretty, pretty overwhelming man, I, it's.
Speaker 1:It's. It's crazy to think like you're like, yeah, you know what this is the deer size where we're from, you know whether you're from the South or even like Jersey, like yeah, we do get big deer and everything like that. But you where my point of that was like I go, I go to Maine every summer and like we have family up there and we travel up there and I'll never forget seeing, like when I was younger at doe, and I was like how is that not a buck? Like this thing is so big and the body looks so muscular and everything like that. I'm just like their doe are the sides of our bucks, like that.
Speaker 1:What is like? What is going on? So what is a? What does a buck bucks like that? What is like? What is going on? So what is a? What does a buck look like? Here? You know what I mean. And going out to you know, I've been putting in my points for iowa and I I hope to go to iowa and kansas and some of those midwest states and it's like you know, I I love hunting in new jersey, but like there's a whole other class of of deer and we're not even also talking about like something I think is a lot is forgotten, a lot is like alberta you know, in canada and those, those places like I've seen some just absolute giants and in canada on the youtube and everything like that, like these areas just have such big deer and they look our like.
Speaker 1:They make our deer look so small in comparison, but it gets you even more hooked, like you were hooked before, but then it's a whole nother game. Just knowing for everyone who's listening or who ever wants to go out in the Midwest, like you're hooked now, and there's still another tier and more calibers of deer and also hunting styles that you have to go and get used to. You know a lot of the hunting that we do, at least in West Jersey, is like up and close swamps, thickets and everything like that. Where you go to the Midwest or South Jersey or you know, maybe down in South Carolina or something like that, it's more ag fields and things like that where things are more open, but that's a lot like how the Midwest is. So there's different things that you got to do and it makes you a better hunter at the end of the day and it's just going to give you that another skill to kill mature deer in other areas.
Speaker 2:Sure, no, no for sure. The more you can expose yourself to different situations, different deer, different environments, the better off you are, because you'll get into somewhere that you haven't been before and you've got stuff to fall back on. You know. You can go back and really say, okay, I've experienced something similar to this and I did this, this and this and it worked well. So you can carry that knowledge with you, no matter where you go to hunt.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure, no matter where you go to hunt. Yeah, that for for sure. And, like you said you, you've killed some, also some great deer, humongous bucks, but you, just you were. You were in, uh, africa too. Yeah, yeah, what was that like now? A south carolina boy going all the way to africa? Was it your your first time in africa?
Speaker 2:no, so. So when I got out of school I actually went and worked over there for seven years. I did an apprenticeship and I outfitted over there and I ended up getting a professional hunter license and and so I worked in in Tanzania, um, and Mozambique and did a little bit in South Africa off and on for for seven years years and then then started my business back here at home and so so I've I've had connections over there for a long time and this, this ended up being through a connection. But uh, yeah, I had never really when I've, when I've hunted over there, it's always been kind of plains game, because you know they were fun to hunt similar to a whitetail and you could eat them. And and you know guys would always say, to hunt similar to a whitetail and you could eat them. And you know guys would always say, well, what about the dangerous game? And I was like, yeah, buffalo, that makes a lot of sense. I've shot a couple buffalo, shot one elephant in a charge I had to shoot him. So I had shot an elephant but I had never gotten into the predators, just because you know you really didn't eat them and and, um, you know that sort of thing and I just was like, nah, I don't, I don't know about that.
Speaker 2:And so last year I was, I was hunting over there and a buddy of mine was with me and he said, man, have you heard about these Matobo Hills cattle killing leopards? And I said no, man, I don't know anything about that. And he said they're there, they live in cattle country in the Southwest of Zimbabwe and they get massive because they eat cows. That's what they live on. And he started showing me pictures of these cats and I mean we're talking 180 to 220 pound leopards and I was always thinking, you know, 100, 140 pounds was about max and you know, after seeing five or six pictures and then walking through, how difficult they are to hunt because they the the ranchers down there, the guys that own those cattle farms, are constantly, you know, having issues with them.
Speaker 2:You know he, you know he walked me through how you hunt them and and long story short, I said yeah, I'm in. So got, got a hunt set up and it was super challenging. The cat was very, very smart. We knew he's there, we, we saw his tracks, we got him on trail camera and it just was a cat and mouse game for for really three weeks and ended up getting him on night night. 19. I ended up getting him and and yeah, he was a he was a full-grown one man, big old, fat cat for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know it's like look at that, that cat is absolutely huge, you know, and so that was one of those things. Like it's a complete. You know the farmers and it's a way of life over there and it's kind of like our I don't know. Like I would probably compare it to the hogs and everything, where they just destroy so much and they cost millions of dollars for us here in america but it's costing people their, their livelihood and everything like that, because they solely need it off the off the cattles and, you know, sell the cattles and or eat the cattles and everything like that. Like it's a, it's a complete livelihood. So that was like all right, like this is this is what we're gonna do, because at the end day, like, like for us being hunters, like it's a big part is conservation.
Speaker 2:And that's actually it. The hunters in this area have actually increased the leopard populations. Because what happened, you know, the farmers went in there, put cows in there. They pretty much eradicated the lions. There's not elephants really in the area. There are some nomads that come through there, but the wildlife on average is a lot lower because they compete with the cattle. And then the leopards, you know they're, they're survivors, and so there's leopards left.
Speaker 2:But what happens is that it's a simple math thing. If, if an outfitter goes in in these ranches are massive math thing. If an outfitter goes in and these ranches are massive, some of them are 100,000 acres, they're huge and an outfitter goes into the guy and says okay, I'm just going to use round numbers here. I'm going to give you $100,000 to have the hunting permission for one year on your property. And the guy goes okay, let me look at this. He goes I'm losing 50 cows at $1,000 a piece. That's $50,000 that I'm losing every year. So if I stop poisoning, snaring, trapping, destroying all these leopard and other animals, then I'm probably going to lose more money and that's probably going to. They're going to eat up to about $75,000 worth of cattle. I'm still going to pocket an extra 25,000 based on what this outfitter is going to do. So I'm going to protect the wildlife and I'm going to stop all of the snaring and poisoning and eradicating because now, for my community and for myself, we're going to have a sustainable wildlife population that is putting more money because of the outfitting and the hunters coming over, and so it ends up being where you had major human wildlife conflict. Now you have none of that and you see the numbers of animals coming back because there's now economic relevance there. So it really is a conservation tool and a lot of people don't understand that.
Speaker 2:I'm sure that most of the people listening to your podcast right now get it, but it is. It's pretty unbelievable, especially like the rhino, for example. You know the rhino was basically almost extinct because their horns were so valuable in Asia and so I mean it was getting down into the hundreds of rhino left. You know there were thousands and thousands of rhinos in Africa, but they were being, you know, poached and destroyed and the hunters stepped in in South Africa and started protecting them and breeding them, and now there are thousands of rhinos again in South Africa and it's the hunters and the hunter's dollars that have brought the rhino back and you ask the average they don't have to be an anti-hunter, but you ask the average non-hunter is rhino hunting a good thing?
Speaker 2:And they would go oh my God, that's the worst thing ever. How could anybody ever hunt or shoot a rhino? And it's because the media has portrayed it as everybody's a poacher. If you shoot a rhino, if you shoot an elephant, if you shoot a leopard, you're a poacher. They don't understand the real dynamic about how hunters, paying whatever it is 5050,000, $60,000, $70,000 to go and hunt a rhino and then $30,000 of those dollars go back into the community for anti-poaching, for rhino breeding, for rhino habitat. You know a lot of these areas. Rhino have to be protected 24-7.
Speaker 2:Well guess what that costs money.
Speaker 1:Somebody's got to pay that, and so the hunter's dollars really go a long way to help with conservation rhino and when it's my shifts up, somebody else is coming and they're spending the whole entire time with the rhino because one, the number has gotten so low the, the horns are precious and this is what we got to do. But could you imagine, like you have to have money to be able there no one's doing it for free. At the end of the day, you know what you, you will probably and a lot of these people may probably take a pay cut. You know what I mean. I, I would probably take it, take a pay cut. Like that would be a pretty cool job, like I get to sit and watch a rhino and protect a rhino or whatever animal somebody was paying me for. But like the more money we can bring into the habitat and everything like that and to pay the people properly is going to yes, it's a hundred percent help any type of animal on that, um, being close to extinction and getting them out of that. And you know we've been going on for for I don't hear me. I mean I can remember, since I was, you know, a little kid hearing about rhinos and being endangered and everything like that, and I believe one of the subspecies of rhinos actually just went endangered. I think the last one died like not too long ago I don't want to misquote it Maybe the white black, however, whatever they're called, you know, but it's this thing that's so misunderstood.
Speaker 1:And you know, when I sit down and talk to a lot of people who don't understand hunting, and you know they always ask me, like, do you plan on going to africa? And it used to always be no. I really didn't have much of a, a um, a will to go to africa and so much of that has changed over, probably since this podcast has has taken off the the two shows and everything like where I've talked to a lot of people who go to Africa. Now we're going to the Great American Outdoors show. We talked to people there, we talked to one of the safaris that we're pretty close to and everything like that.
Speaker 1:And how much not only conservation, all the conservation, but the money and you're feeding the tribes and stuff like that on certain animals that you're hunting, which you were, you know, a part of just doing the last. You know, going there for seven years and and everything like that. So you got to see firsthand of of the experience. But I think, like if any hunter really gets the opportunity to do it. I think it is a it is becoming this key to do so we can really help. You know Africa out and you know the people there, the tribes there, you know the people who protect these animals and everything like that. It is a great way to give back to there and do our part as hunters and conservationists towards to Africa and any other place that has that issues. Sure.
Speaker 2:No, I agree wholeheartedly. I mean one of the places we hunted in Mozambique when I started there. You know there's probably three herds of impala and they had anywhere from four to eight animals per herd and we did three years of anti-poaching and snare removal and when I left there, you know, before I stopped working in Africa, you know those herds had grown up to, you know as many as 50 impala per herd. So just in a few short years, if you can control the poaching and the snaring, you know the wildlife can thrive. The problem, you know the problem, or the other shoe to drop per se in this equation, is well, you know, look at these national parks that don't have any hunting. You know they're thriving and doing well and that is a good point. But not all of Africa is like that.
Speaker 2:Right when these national parks are are beautiful, scenic areas. They don't have the tsetse fly problem. Tsetse flies are like deer flies on steroids and you know, you get into these more remote areas that don't have any infrastructure, that have tsetse flies that have super thick brush or bush. That is not as scenic. You would never get a photographic person in there and you can turn it into a hunting area and that place, after five or six years of a really good outfitter being in there and implementing the anti-poaching you know, that place is all of a sudden, with wildlife numbers, is going to rival the park. Now it's not as scenic, you have the tsetse flies and you have issues and you don't have the infrastructure, but that is a great way for wildlife to survive, and not only survive but to thrive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now I imagine one of the parks, and one of the most well-known ones, I think, is the Kruger Kruger Park, which you always hear on Discovery Channel and everything like that. And that is like you're saying like, yes, you're going to get a lot of those photographers and a lot of those companies who are going to come out and do documentaries and stuff like that, where they're getting monies being flown into into that park and everything like that, where they can still hire the proper stuff that they need to do and everything like that. But it's kind of like you know, you go out into the middle of, you know, the woods of canada or alaska or something like that. Like these are, yes, they're remote areas that are very difficult to establish. You know something like that. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Where you these, these areas, that where it's a bit harder to establish something like that really needs hunting and that's going to be the big. Like, hey, you know, money has to be coming in somewhere, conservation has to be coming in somewhere. Let's, let's do it this way, let's. And this is how hunting is going to help. You know this part of the area versus? You know, maybe, kruger state park? Know this part of the area versus, you know, maybe Kruger State Park, because at the end of the day it feels like every show that I'm watching on Discovery Channel and everything like that is being filmed there and things like that, so everyone flocks already to it where it's able to bring in that money.
Speaker 2:Well, one major problem with Kruger right now is they have an elephant population that's not sustainable. I mean, they're destroying habitat and they have tried multiple there to take out some of these old bulls that are no longer breeding and raise more capital for the park. And what a lot of people don't know is Kruger is fenced. It's massive but it's fenced, and so these elephants are confined. And what happens? They get around these water holes, these artificial water holes, and they eat all the understory. They eat everything. They destroy all the trees and so then, like the sable and stuff that rely on that, they've completely destroyed the habitat for the sable, you know, up and down the rivers, they've completely destroyed all the habitat up and down the rivers. So now the bush, the bush buck or the um, yeah, the bush buck and yalla, you know that live in those riverine forest, have all been destroyed and they've been pushed out and then they become easy pickings for the leopard and for the hyena and lion.
Speaker 2:And so you know, it has to be a balance and as as man, we have to be able to balance the, because you know it's a quote unquote free range. I mean it's massive, but in the old days those elephants, you know they weren't confined to those artificial water points. You know they could really migrate and go, you know, hundreds of kilometers to get into fresh food and they weren't all. And I hate to get into a whole Africa conservation podcast here, but I guess the point is, as true sportsmen, as true hunters, you know we, we got to do our part, regardless of whether it's in South Carolina game management unit one or whether it's in Kruger park. You know, as, as sportsmen, that that's, that's part of of being a hunter is to give back to the environment that we love.
Speaker 1:For sure, 100% agree with that, you know. And then you know we could something. I and yet again we've been, I've been loving this talk and everything, but let's get into Osseo. You know, that's something that I really want to get into. So where did the idea like when did? Do you remember what year? I imagine you remember what year were you like really like all right, like this is the idea, but now let's make it actually happen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we actually launched in July of 2019. That was our first year, the, the. We started the idea and started putting things together and building prototypes in 2018. And so, yeah, man it. I mean I've told the story multiple times. You know I was, as I touched on earlier in the podcast.
Speaker 2:You know I really saw a gap for a good camouflage pattern on some high-end quality apparel and so I was literally walking in the woods to pull a couple stands out to move them to another location in October and two great horned owls got in a fight or they were breeding or whatever they do in October and one of them flew by me and lit up in a tree and you know he just disappeared and I walked over there to him and you know they kind of do that head bob back and forth and I saw him and he flew from that tree to another one. He disappeared again and so, long story short, I had some biologists and some veterinary friends looking to prey eyesight like squirrels, rabbits, deer you know that that sort of thing and you know they they've got very, very similar eyesight and I just said man from a tree. The camouflage of those owls is like nothing in the woods and they have to make a living like literally live and die by their ability to hunt and their ability to blend in and get close to the prey animals that feeds them and their families. And I said, if ever there was a good elevated camouflage pattern, it is the pattern that that owl has. So we started working on developing that pattern and it took a while to get it right. And you know, does it look exactly like an owl? It doesn't look exactly like an owl, but it takes their shading, the depth and the coloring and how they blend.
Speaker 2:And we put all that together to create the Osseo Raptor pattern. And once we had the pattern, we had a really good manufacturing team to help us with the high-end cut, sew and fabrics. It's quite a process pulling everything together. But the first year we launched we had seven products. We had an early season pant, we had an early season top, we had a mid-season pant, mid-season hoodie, mid-season vest, we had a late jacket, late season bib. So we had seven main products in the line and that's what we went to market with. And since then we've grown it.
Speaker 1:I think we've got 47 or 48 SKUs now from early season all the way to late season and all the gap pieces and puffy jackets and packs and you know, have a full, full line of stuff that we're really proud of yeah, I mean it's, it's absolutely phenomenal and when you, when you look at the patterns and you know, just just first, before we get into the new one, the raptor pattern and everything like that, like I see you could so see it and it does, I see the inspiration and everything like that and you love it and I like how you use that. Let's look at prey items and what they actually see and let's create something like that and it's so cool how it's like where would it be if you didn't see those two owls? You know what I mean and things are just meant to be and everything like that. And it's crazy to even think of. But that is absolutely a phenomenal idea.
Speaker 1:And just using because you, you see so many companies use the, the leaves and everything like that, but like why not actually use an actual animal, where their whole purpose is to be blending in because they are a predator and they are trying to to catch prey, where they're designed to be basically invisible, to go und undetected and everything like that, and it's a phenomenal concept. And, yet again, that's part of why so many people have gravitated to this new, to Osseo, to being a new, and, like I said many times when you now talk about a lot of the the top camo like this is in everyone's top, in in the top. You know what I mean, and it's something that I also love too. It's like it's it's reasonably priced too. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's another big thing yeah, we're customer direct, so we're able to you, so we're able to, you know, cut out the middleman you know that would be, you know, a Bass Pro or a Cabela's or not to not to just single out those guys, but any store. I mean, they've got to, they've got to make a living, they've got to pay for that space, and we just cut that out. And and that that was not a concept I came up with. It was actually a friend, a guy named Jason Harrison, that started Kuyu. You know he was the first guy to take camouflage directly to the consumer and I knew him before he passed away, and so that was kind of the inspiration from how we ran. Our sales model was to be able to make it more affordable. But back to the camo pattern. I mean we didn't do anything ingenious there, we pretty much quote, unquote, stole from nature, but that pattern has worked for thousands of years.
Speaker 2:I think, as man, we have a tendency to over-engineer stuff and come up with stuff that doesn't necessarily fit but is marketed very, very, very well. And you know, we just kind of stepped back and looked at the natural environment of how predator-prey relationships work and what really works in that world, and so, yeah, we're real happy with how things are going and I love getting the testimonials and the pictures. Man, when hunting season rolls around, I can't tell you the number of pictures and texts and Instagram messages that come in with guys that have killed big deer and say, man, I had a doe that came by me at four yards.
Speaker 1:She never saw me, the buck was right behind her, and it's just neat to hear all that and it's very humbling yeah, and, and then you guys come out with the rap x, you know, and it for for both being in the tree and on the ground. But specifically, I a brand for a camo for those those ground hunter, hunters, spot and stalking, and same thing coming from you know, bobcats, coyotes, things like that of just using what they have been using for for millions of years into your guys camo. And you know that that was something like when. When did that idea to like all right? Now what's the next step of you know? How do we go from here? Now let's market ground. Are you a big ground? Do you get on the ground at all Anything?
Speaker 2:like that. You know I hunt, you know, elk, mule, deer, do some spot and stalk stuff. Get out into Kansas and more prairie country, do some stuff on the ground, some brush blinds and, and you know the the RAPEX pattern. You know, you know guys can still wear it in the trees. It's not just exclusively for if you want a universal pattern, one that works in the trees, and you do some ground stuff too, that's your go-to. If you're very, very mission-specific and you're a saddle guy, tree stand guy 100% of the time, then yeah, the Raptor pattern is the one to go with. And yeah, man, I was actually. You know, basically when we launched I thought, okay, we need to do a, you know, a ground predator pattern and I was actually super nervous that somebody was going to beat me to the punch there. You know they were going to see the the owl idea and they were going to think, okay, that makes sense. You know there needs to be a ground, a ground predator pattern, and somebody was going to come out with that before we were able to do it. But luckily that that did not happen.
Speaker 2:So I think that's that's kind of where we've set up our niche, is that we're we're a whitetail. We're a whitetail company and we've got camo patterns that are very, very natural, that that work in trees or or if you're hunting on the ground. So that's that's our lane. We're not trying to, we're not trying to build stuff to hunt in the Rocky mountains. We're not trying to build stuff you know to to hunt alligators or ducks or turkeys. You know we we are whitetail, very, very specific and even more specific, we we cater to bow hunters. You know everything we build is very quiet, it's very efficient, very easy to get into your pockets. You know we've got a patent pending bow hunting collar so you don't have that's what it's, it's in your way when you draw or when you anchor. So everything that we build we look at it from a bow hunter's perspective. And and how can we get somebody closer to the animals that we love to hunt?
Speaker 1:yeah, and and that's what I was going to ask next of you know some of the features and everything like that. But also you know you already talked about the bow hunting collar. But I think for for me being you know and I could speak on me you know strategic pocket placement of being able to put stuff, because sometimes I love putting, I have stuff in my backpack and everything like that. But the less I have to carry in my backpack especially now with with camera equipment and everything like that, and being able to put stuff on my body and being able to get that easy access to your range finder, to a grunt call, I'm pretty damn clumsy. Or I'll go to set something up and I'll drop it out the tree and it becomes a huge hassle because if it's something I really need, like a range finder, or you know my grunt call like now I gotta get all the way back down, pick it up, get all the way back up.
Speaker 1:You know I I shoot a thumb release and everything like that, putting something where I could put a, a thumb release where it's an easy access for me to be able to, just to just grab in, and everything like that. You know how, as as a bow hunter. You know, I imagine that was pretty high on on the priority list of you guys thinking like, all right, this is, we need to be able to make it. Also, if somebody doesn't want a quick hunt, they don't want to bring out a backpack, they have something where we have pockets designated for you to put your stuff that you're going to need as a as a bow hunter or even a rifle hunter.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all of our bottoms have have eight pockets. We've got, uh, four thigh pockets, two on each side, then we've got two slit pockets and we've got two back pockets on all, all of our pants and and bibs. So you've got eight pockets on the bottom. And, exactly like you say, if you've got deer calls that you're running releases, a small flashlight, a hat light, you know, screw in steps. You know, a lot of times I've gone super mobile and not had a pack. You know you've got a pull-up rope that you might have to have that may not be connected to your stand or your saddle, whatever it may be. So lots of pockets are important and really, you know, I mentioned earlier what can we do to get guys closer to you know, the whitetail, you know. And how do you do that? Well, closer you've got to be quieter and you've got to be more concealed, and so we're constantly working on the quieter aspect, because there's a fine line behind having something that is completely dead silent, quiet, and then having something that's got some performance and some durability and some windproofing. So that's the other side of the equation is concealment, quietness, but then also the ability to stay in the stand longer in the elements, right, you got to be able to sit there, especially during the rut. And so how can we make gear that's warm enough and windproof enough that a guy can get in Alberta in November and sit there from daylight until dark?
Speaker 2:And so there's a lot of engineering that goes into that. There's a lot of insulation. Where are the insulations going to be? Where the windproof liner is? How long the tail and the jacket is? You know, if you've got a beanie, you know a super warm, insulated beanie is a guy going to be able to still hear out of it? You know how's the hood set up? Is the hood removable? If I put the hood up, can I even get drawn and see through my peep side and turn my head and not lose my peripheral vision? So, man, it's a lot that goes into it, and I guess I am a little bit opposite of some of the clothing companies that have come out.
Speaker 2:It seems like a lot of them had a lot of experience in the textile industry and then they caught up on the hunting side of it, you know, and really started hunting once they launched their line, whereas I was the exact opposite, you know, I grew up hunting and, and you know, I was in my mid 40s when, when we started osseo and and I did not I had some some business experience, but I had not had any textile or apparel experience, and so that was a learning curve for me, but luckily again, we were able to create a really, really good, good team. That, you know, we, we knew exactly what we wanted and it was just a matter of sourcing it. So, um, yeah, that that's.
Speaker 2:That's pretty much the the long and the short of of osseo now what I?
Speaker 1:a few more questions. And yeah, let you get, let you let you get going here something that I like I I plan on getting and and buying right before I I head to delaware and everything like that is it's probably the leafy jacket. You know that, that whole setup right there and you see it a lot on on ground setups. You'll see stuff like for turkey season and everything like that, but I don't really see that for for the whitetails, but it's such a like one of those things like why, why don't really see that for for the whitetails? But it's such a like one of those things like why why don't we?
Speaker 1:You know kind of and is that how you kind of came to? Like this would be a perfect thing for the early season. You know, when all the foliage is, it's still up and going and everything like where you can just blend right into a, into a tree and just be part exactly like the tree. And even, I imagine when the wind blows it looks like kind of the leaves are blowing and everything like that. Was that kind of your guys, your mindset behind that, and when did you guys come up with that idea?
Speaker 2:So leafy stuff has been around a while.
Speaker 2:You see it a lot in the turkey world A lot of turkey hunters will run the leafy stuff and it's got a lot of green in it. You know ours, obviously our camo pattern doesn't have any green because there's no natural mammal predator in nature that has green in its camo not one single one, which is pretty phenomenal because so many guys are like man. I got to have green in my, in my, in my camo, and it's just because we've been marketed that for so long. But the the leafy made a lot of sense because we touched on it earlier.
Speaker 2:You know getting getting as close as we possible, can you know I? I like shots inside 18 yards and and you know I'm shooting a compound, but we have a ton of traditional hunters that that run osseo. You know longbow and recurve hunters and those guys have got to get close. You know that 12, 8 to 12 yards is is the perfect range for them and you know everything you can do to get a guy that close. And and certainly when there's foliage, you know up until october, even in south carolina, up until november and really even into December, you know you still have foliage on the tree in parts of the South and so it made a lot of sense to us to have an elevated leafy jacket that the guys could wear, that we're wanting to get super close to animals.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think, as a bow hunter, like your idea, like my ideal is to get as close as as possible if I can get a five yard chip shot, and sometimes I swear the five yard shots are more difficult than the 20 and 30 yard shots because you never really practice the five yard chip shots. But, like, right, that's, that's the idea. And sometimes when you're, when you're tree stand hunting, saddle hunting, whatever, sometimes we're getting up maybe, maybe not even a stick, sometimes we'll just put the platform on or or just one stick. It just depends, depends on the whole, how the whole setup is. But this is like the, the perfect key component for a, for a camo and a piece of um clothing that that we would, we would love to wear one of my buddies, he, he has it, he loves it, um, you know, and, like I said, it plans on being in mind and it also, you know, it's for early season and then also layers on so you can use it in the in the later season too as well.
Speaker 2:Yes, sir, yep, no, it's. It's a great piece and and it has been I actually think we're we're sold out of them. I mean, we didn't bring a ton of them to market the first year. We had them, but they sold out pretty quick. So, yeah, guys have really taken a liking to them. It has some success wearing them, for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now if you could somebody out there, whoever you know, one of our listeners right now, and they're like all right, you know, this is what I what? What would your recommendation be for somebody who's looking to get into Osseo of the like? Maybe the first thing that they that they can buy, or they can, you know, for a birthday gift or a Christmas gift or coming up, what is something that you would recommend to to start out, as for for for a hunter?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So so your, your, your average hunter is going to wait till it cools off. You know they're not going to be out there. You know getting after it too terribly hard early season. So we have what we call our 90% jacket, 90% pant, and that's for 90% of the season and that's our Sherpa jacket and Sherpa pant and those are by far our best sellers. And you know that's anywhere from your low 40s with no base layers, basically whatsoever.
Speaker 2:You can start wearing that in the low 40s and you can wear it all the way down into the low 20s if you layer underneath it, because it does have a windproof membrane that does a great job holding in your heat and keeping the wind out.
Speaker 2:And then it is lined with a Sherpa fleece so it does have some insulation in it. So the and the, the pants this year are full zip so that you can put them on over you know boots or anything. And then then the jacket has, um, our, our patent pending bow hunting collar. It's got a safety harness slit in the back, it's got two angled pockets and then it's got two hand warming pockets. So real versatile pieces that you can wear for 90% of the season. So that would be my recommendation, and I would probably throw in a mid-weight hoodie because if you did get into some warm weather hunting you could wear the Sherpa pants with that mid-weight hoodie and with those three pieces you can get a some warm weather hunting you could wear the Sherpa pants, with that mid-weight hoodie and with those three pieces you can get a lot of hunting done, and I think, definitely now more than ever, of just how winter has been going.
Speaker 1:You still get those warm days during the rut, like you know, in the morning you'll be cold as hell, and then you get into the evening and all of a sudden you're like you're sweating because you have so many of these, these other layers on everything like that, and you know you're, you're just absolutely miserable. So it's something that can come in handy too. You know you have the, you know you're like you said, you're 90 of the time gear, and then you can throw on something a little little less that it's going to help you with that evening hunt on those warm rut days where you don't want to leave the woods or anything like that, and you can just get a quick change in or and or, take off a layer and be good to go with your hunt.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely right. Yeah, you can wear that midway hoodie underneath your your Sherpa jacket for the morning. Sit and then just pull that Sherpa jacket off and you're good, you know? No, no worries whatsoever definitely well.
Speaker 1:Um, joe I I want to thank you so much for coming on. It was absolute pleasure. Would love to to get you back on in the future. You're so fun.
Speaker 1:Just also not only the osseo stuff, but actually you know talking to you about, you know what it's like hunting in south carolina. You know going to Africa, you know and and dabbling in some of the uh, the Midwest hunts as as well. I absolutely appreciate it and you know, huge shout out to you guys. I mean I'm really excited to you know, be able to run some of your guys' stuff this year and, you know, grow more into the to the Osseo um camo, just something that, like we said before and I'm, you know, probably now say a hundred times like the fact that's made specific for whitetail hunters is is such a big key because that's mostly mostly what I do I'll be wearing, I'll be rocking it during bear season too also big bear hunter I'll be, I'll be rocking it during bear season, everything like that which is it's, it's still, it's the perfect fit for for us here, and everything like that, and and we're really looking forward to it, man, thank you so much for having me and good luck to you this season.
Speaker 2:I can't wait to follow along and appreciate what you do with your podcast and keeping everybody informed. And, man, if there's anything ever I can do for you, let me know. I sure appreciate the opportunity to be on your show, appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Thank you guys so much, everyone. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. Go check out the link below. Joe's personal instagram is going to be on there and also the asio instagram is going to be on there. If you're looking for some great whitetail camo, make sure you go check them out. Everybody, we'll see you guys next time.
